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      Use the right forum section please   08/10/17

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PeterZ KCLE EDDN

Performance drop w/1.0.1

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Definitely more stuttery as compared to previous builds and TFDi, PMDG, etc.  No comparison in the smoothness department.  Hope this is looked at because this bird is worth the fuss.  ;)

 

 

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5 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 

But it simply must be something local on your side because there are thousands of users who do not have this effect. Before every release we do fps test on three machines (FSX / P3d V3 / P3d V4) under exactly the same conditions, somewhere over the ocean with no weather so we measure the aircraft and not other add-ons. I got 131, 151, 186 fps average on all builds (with a 5% variation). 

 

 

 

Of course it is some funny combination of my machine and CRJ which causes problem here. I just wanted to emphasize that previous version worked well and I see no problems anywhere else with my sim. 

It thus must be caused by some change in CRJ when updated from 1.0.0.5 -> 1.0.1.0.. I flew with 1.0.0.5 a day before the update, no changes in my system whatsoever.

 

With kind regards, K.V.

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Quick update

I updated my graphics card drivers and overall I'm getting much better performance with all other add-ons from PMDG FSL etc. the AS CRJ is a bit better but still not as good as my other add-ons.

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I must add my voice to this thread. Performance of 1.0.1.1 is for me FPS-wise between 1.0.0.5c and 1.0.1.0. However, I am confident that Hans will in course of time optimise the code and so improve performance.

As the composite photo shows, I operate a networked system of PC's with the CRJ cockpit panels distributed in pseudo-2D format over 6 touchscreens run by my WidevieW-X server:

CRJ-2D-VHHX13.thumb.jpg.6749a02726196ac80428a1083dd45eaf.jpg

And, as you can guess, I would like to find a way of modifying the NavData files to make Kai Tak accessible via the FMC.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:55 PM, Caribpilot said:

Quick update

I updated my graphics card drivers and overall I'm getting much better performance with all other add-ons from PMDG FSL etc. the AS CRJ is a bit better but still not as good as my other add-ons.

 

Well that certainly seems to be the case. At least here as well.

 

There are those on here defending it, and giving advice on how to "improve" it with settings, but the truth here is that it performs much worse than all other high end aircraft models I have.

 

It's not unflyable by any means, it just doesn't perform as well as the others I have. Hope they are able to improve it, as well as solve the NAV problems soon.

 

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Maybe I should give the new version a try. I actually ended up downgrading to 5c and the performance and smoothness difference is simply stunning compared to 1.0.1 on my system. I don't necessarily monitor FPS, but rather the variation value (or fluctuation, I forget what the official term is). The difference between the two versions  - with 1.0.1 variation is spiking and eventually settles in around 15-17%; with 5c it's only 2-3% (which is pretty much the value I get will all other study sim add-ons).

 

I'm hoping this will not be a problem anymore once I get my new system at the end of this year, if I get final approval of the CFO (wife)......

 

Cheers,

Peter

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5 hours ago, PeterZ KCLE EDDN said:

(...) I'm hoping this will not be a problem anymore once I get my new system at the end of this year, (...)

 

 

A new system shouldn't be required for the CRJ because the CRJ has been advertised as ...

... "VAS and FPS friendly because we love complex airports as much as you do".

 

Anyway, CRJ performance for a number of people is...

  • highest with v1.0.0.5(c)
  • in between with v1.0.1.1
  • lowest with 1.0.1
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Jaas, Not for me! Absolutely terrible frames. Not enjoyable at all, not even close to what I get with even the Aerosoft Airbus Series. When the TFDi 717 came out, it was a slide show, even worse than the CRJ. They eventually updated the product to the point now where I get satisfactory performance and I'm a happy camper now. I'm sure Aerosoft will get it's stuff together eventually as well. But until then I don't mind my choice of regional aircraft being the TFDi 717 and the Majestic Q400. I wish I could go back to the original version  1.0.0.5(c) because I actually had a few enjoyable flights, but stupid me deleted the download file. Good luck with fixing this performance issue.

 

Regards

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On 29/09/2017 at 2:07 AM, canadagoose said:

Jaas, Not for me! Absolutely terrible frames. Not enjoyable at all, not even close to what I get with even the Aerosoft Airbus Series. When the TFDi 717 came out, it was a slide show, even worse than the CRJ. They eventually updated the product to the point now where I get satisfactory performance and I'm a happy camper now. I'm sure Aerosoft will get it's stuff together eventually as well. But until then I don't mind my choice of regional aircraft being the TFDi 717 and the Majestic Q400. I wish I could go back to the original version  1.0.0.5(c) because I actually had a few enjoyable flights, but stupid me deleted the download file. Good luck with fixing this performance issue.

 

Regards

Hi there canadagoose.  Will try another flight tomorrow and give you my impressions of the CRJ's performance with 1.0.1. in Steam edition.  You could be right that 1.0.0.5c had better performance...

 

Haven't downloaded 1.0.1.1. yet.  Waiting for the next update....

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I'm definitely having that stuttering effect. Great plane though and it's going to be a rock star once the final kinks are worked through.

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The CRJ is the absolute worst performer in my hangar.    FPS indicates anywhere 10-60 fps on the ground with crazy fluctuation, 20-50 fps (more stable) in the air, but the stutters (both on the ground, and in the air) are sickening.  Almost unusable.  Certainly not if I want to enjoy the experience... and, of course, that is the idea.   Not one stutter or performance issue with ANY other aircraft.  I have had this issue since Day 1 (product release), but it has gradually gotten worse.

 

NVIDIA drivers, and all drivers, up to date.   I've tried older video drivers too.   No improvement.

 

Specs: i7-3790X 4.2GHz, 32GB RAM, NVIDIA 1070GTX

Ver 1.0.1.1. P3DV4

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I have found the latest release to be stuttering, It was fairly noticeable when I had frame lock set at 30 FPS in P3dv4.

 

I have since changed to unlimited and whilst that has helped, now its obvious why I was seeing the stutter previously, as now the FPS fluctuation is up and down every few seconds and is clearly noticeable.

 

I'm hoping for some improvements in the next build.

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I will discuss this with Hans, we currently have 33 people who feel the performance is lower than they would expect and whose report sounds legit. So far we have been unable to see this on any of our systems (and to be honest we have 5 users who re-installed their sims and had the problem solved that way, a 100% reliable way to solve it so far) and have been unable to find something that these users have in common. Every developer has these customers and all their customers say other add-ons run fine and it is this specific add-on that causes the issue. 

 

These issues are always hard, but now uncommon. I literally can recall them from any release I have been involved with. From the most basic scenery to the most complex Airbus. On some systems it is just damned slow and almost always this is solved when the OS, sim and add-on is reinstalled on the same system. In some case we were able to help these users by simplifying the add-on by simply deleting elements, in some case (like the Airbus) by changing code that changing some features (like predictive WX radar) so it runs 'different'. But that only makes sense if we know of a feature that causes problems, so far we have not identified exactly what causes the issue for these 33 users. So right now that is not an option. 

 

The fact the issues seems reliably solved by resetting the system does seem to suggest there is some factor involved that we have no control over. So it is not ignored, but to be honest, if we do not what to work on.....

 

Tomorrow I will visit one of these 33 people and check his system. I will bring an SSD with a clear Win10, P3d V4 and the CRJ, to see if we can see the same issues booting from that to make sure it is not hardware related.

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I own the plane since yesterday and can also say that the performance is low (usually not over 20fps at all). With every other "complex" add on (Aerosoft Airbusses, PMDG NGX and 747v3) I averagely get a minimum of 20 frames (sure, Frankfurt with much traffic gets lower frames) but just in average I get way better performance. (And that after it was said that the CRJ would be very light on the performance in the preview thread).

Anyway, here is my system, I hope that could help in resolving the issue:

Prepar3D V3.4

Windows 10 64Bit

16GB RAM

EVGA GTX 970 GPU, 4GB

Intel i7 3770, 3.4GHz

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20 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

I will discuss this with Hans, we currently have 33 people who feel the performance is lower than they would expect and whose report sounds legit. So far we have been unable to see this on any of our systems (and to be honest we have 5 users who re-installed their sims and had the problem solved that way, a 100% reliable way to solve it so far) and have been unable to find something that these users have in common. Every developer has these customers and all their customers say other add-ons run fine and it is this specific add-on that causes the issue. 

 

These issues are always hard, but now uncommon. I literally can recall them from any release I have been involved with. From the most basic scenery to the most complex Airbus. On some systems it is just damned slow and almost always this is solved when the OS, sim and add-on is reinstalled on the same system. In some case we were able to help these users by simplifying the add-on by simply deleting elements, in some case (like the Airbus) by changing code that changing some features (like predictive WX radar) so it runs 'different'. But that only makes sense if we know of a feature that causes problems, so far we have not identified exactly what causes the issue for these 33 users. So right now that is not an option. 

 

The fact the issues seems reliably solved by resetting the system does seem to suggest there is some factor involved that we have no control over. So it is not ignored, but to be honest, if we do not what to work on.....

 

Tomorrow I will visit one of these 33 people and check his system. I will bring an SSD with a clear Win10, P3d V4 and the CRJ, to see if we can see the same issues booting from that to make sure it is not hardware related.

 

Mathijs,

 

I think I saw you already confirming in another thread that you see the frame rate fluctuation?

 

Personally, I have not seen such a large swing in FPS with any other add-on before. Previously I have run the sims at a locked FPS and would use unlimited to see the FPS effects of various addons as a test.  With v4 I have switched to unlimited as per some recommendations for general use.

 

To me its pretty obvious that the 'stuttering' effect is caused by this large frame rate fluctuation. There must be something going on in the background with the calculations or something. Its most noticeable as you pan around the VC. All my addons feel very smooth in this regard except the CRJ.

 

I have used many addons in the past from yourselves (2 or 3 airbus versions) MJC Q400, PMDG 737NG and I have not seen this effect before during max FPS testing.

 

 

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The add-on indeed fluctuates more than other add-ons in FSP, but as explained that is because we decided not to 'smooth' that out because that always has an overall negative effects on fps. If people feel that a drop from 50 to 35 fps is stuttering then it might indeed be 'the cause' but as long as the low range is not really low (as with the vast majority of users) we do not see that as a problem.

 

In my experience people see stuttering as a halting (not lowering) of fps. a small time period of no fps. we simply are unable to see that on any of our systems and on the customers systems we experimented with that was always on systems that had low fps to start with. And on ALL of the systems that were fully reset (so clear sim etc) the issue was solved. So while we acknowledge the problem for some users we know it is related to other things then just the CRJ.

 

We are monitoring it. But as said at this moment we simply do not know what to work on. Perhaps a new release will change things unintendedly.

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Just describing your fps and your config is not very useful.
Sure you have a common config but nobody knows what is the bottleneck.
Please precise your settings (nvidia & p3d) because I have a similar config and can't see any performance issues (no more problem than a PMDG or TFDI addon at least).

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19 hours ago, Mathijs Kok said:

The add-on indeed fluctuates more than other add-ons in FSP, but as explained that is because we decided not to 'smooth' that out because that always has an overall negative effects on fps. If people feel that a drop from 50 to 35 fps is stuttering then it might indeed be 'the cause' but as long as the low range is not really low (as with the vast majority of users) we do not see that as a problem.

 

In my experience people see stuttering as a halting (not lowering) of fps. a small time period of no fps. we simply are unable to see that on any of our systems and on the customers systems we experimented with that was always on systems that had low fps to start with. And on ALL of the systems that were fully reset (so clear sim etc) the issue was solved. So while we acknowledge the problem for some users we know it is related to other things then just the CRJ.

 

We are monitoring it. But as said at this moment we simply do not know what to work on. Perhaps a new release will change things unintendedly.

 

I don't get any 'halts' so I don't meet your definition of  stutter. It simply a lack of smoothness with the rapid FPS changes. To me its noticeable anyway.

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On my system, 7900X @4.5GHz (all cores), GTX 1080TI FTW3, at EDDF Professional, ORBX (GES off), AS16, night or daytime, the CRJ has with usually  plus 10-15% fps fluctuation compared with the 747, 737 or other add-ons, which seems a little bit too much (tested in the same conditions).  Most of the add-ons have till 10%, CRJ has till 30% fluctuation.

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2 hours ago, vali said:

On my system, 7900X @4.5GHz (all cores), GTX 1080TI FTW3, at EDDF Professional, ORBX (GES off), AS16, night or daytime, the CRJ has with usually  plus 10-15% fps fluctuation compared with the 747, 737 or other add-ons, which seems a little bit too much (tested in the same conditions).  Most of the add-ons have till 10%, CRJ has till 30% fluctuation.

 

I have no idea which flight sim you're running, but if it's P3DV4 then frame rates work far differently in that version than in previous versions. If you haven't already, you might try removing an NVIDIA Inspector settings, and then setting V-Sync/Triple Buffering to On in P3DV4. This should even things out for you.

 

Best wishes

 

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Yes, I am using P3D v4. I do not compare add-ons or sim with the previous versions but within the actual version of P3D v4, as said, the results are coming from same conditions. 

I do not use Nvidia Inspector. In P3D I have V-Sync ON and Triple Buffering ON too, frames unlimited. I am running at 4K. I can get into settings detail but they are unchanged, only the add-on used at EDDF for a circle flight is changed (same hour, same weather).

If I am using the monitor at 30Hz it will not make such a difference in terms of fps between CRJ, 777, 747. But at 60Hz, with frames unlimited, you can see better the fps fluctuation, which I saw it for the CRJ today up to 40% sometimes and up to 15% for the 777. Average fps is comparable between CRJ, 777, 747 usually.

But usually stuttering comes from the fluctuation which I still consider it high on CRJ (this is why Rob or other or me use the monitor at 30Hz, to try to get it smoother against the fps fluctuation).

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