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Hotfix 1.28.9c: EDTO instead of ETOPS?


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Hi all members,

 

I'm not a professional pilot, but simply a flightsim enthousiast. I'm using PFPX since 2014, but for European operations eg. Oslo-Malaga, Düsseldorf-Nice, Amsterdam-Dubai, these routes don't require ETOPS.

 

I'd like to extend mine horizons by flying over oceans and poles.

 

About ETOPS (existing in previous PFPX versions prior 1.28.9c hotfix), now replaced by (modern?) EDTO (Extended Diversion Time Operations), but really it's not clear in my mind and, unfortunately, nearly undocumented on the net (always refer to ETOPS).

 

I'm using mainly PMDG airliners (each model having many liveries/AC registrations, all from PMDG for livery & equipments, via PMDG Operations Center) such:

- 737NGX (using only -800NG, 800NG winglets and -900NG winglets variants).

- 747-400 Queen of the Skies V3 (using only -400 and -400F variants).

- 777-200LR.

- 777F.

- 777-300ER.

 

But I don't know exactly what EDTO parameters I'll must use for each aircraft. Officially (IRL) all Boeing 777 models are extented to ETOPS-330 rules, aren't? but what about EDTO equivalent? also, what about 777-400 (PAX) and 777-400F (cargo)?

 

Thanks in advance for explanations.

 

Dominique.

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Don't worry too much about the naming, and the parameters largely depend on the airline that you're simulating. Not all 777s will have ETOPS 330 - it just means that they could if the airline jumped through the hoops and wanted it.

 

As for as parameters go (and again, this largely depends on the airline/aircraft you are simulating).

 

 

Times

737 - up to 180 mins

747 - can be unlimited (e.g. Qantas has an exemption for its A380 and 747s  https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2015L01949)

777 - up to 330 mins

 

 

Fuel (from Paragraph 3.4.5.b https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2014-EDTO/Draft EDTO Handbook edited only for training (2).pdf)

 

Simplified, the document says that, at the most critical point, you must have (in addition to the bias figures in the first paragraph of this section):

  • Fuel to cruise to destination at FL100 (or higher - see Notes below)
  • 15 minutes of holding fuel @ 1,500' overhead destination
  • Fuel to conduct an instrument approach and land (you could say around 300kg for the 737, 2000kg for the 747, and 1500kg for the 777).
  • 5% reserve for wind (if not using an approved wind model - which we aren't)
  • 5% fuel bias (as we do not have an approved fuel consumption monitoring program)
  • Fuel for icing when it is forecast - I would generally turn icing on when you calculate your plan, unless you're sure there's not going to be icing

SO!

In your fuel policy, under EDTO at the bottom, set your wind error and fuel bias and wind error at 5%.

 

In your aircraft settings, I would set up two scenarios:  one for depressurisation, and one for one-engine-out depressurisation.  The document above says the most fuel-critical scenario is the applicable one.  The two worst scenarios can vary flight-to-flight, and would be either depressurised, or one engine out and depressurised.  Sometimes aircraft will burn less fuel with one engine than two.  So you'd be wise to have both, check on each flight plan you do which is the worst (i.e. requires the most fuel), and then disable the other in the aircraft settings and run the flight plan again.

You'd then run out of fuel on the runway - there's a lot of discussion of this on Pprune, but it's what the regulations say.


So for each scenario, I'd make your Reserve 1 in PFPX aircraft EDTO setup the 15 minutes @ 1,500', and your Reserve 2 the approach fuel amount.  Your descent would be EMER and 1EOEMER respectively, and cruise will be LRC/300 knots-ish, and 1EOLRC/1EO 300knots-ish respectively, depending on the PFPX aircraft profile.

 

The 737 will have its APU on from take-off to EDTO exit, and will obviously have it on for each scenario.

 

 

Notes

  • Some airlines carry extra oxygen so they can cruise above FL100 when depressurised for either a short or considerable time.  For example, one Australian airline can cruise at FL140 for 8 hours in some of their aircraft, and not need to descend to FL100.  This saves fuel.
  • Airlines may add their own reserves on top of the regulations.  For example, an Australian airline carries 30 minutes holding and approach fuel for depressurised.
  • That is the ICAO regulation document (or a draft thereof) - each regulatory authority probably has its own interpretation of it.  CASA in Australia have their own EDTO document, but is basically the same.
  • There will be some flights where extra fuel is loaded to cover these scenarios - you can reduce this or get rid of it entirely sometimes by picking different airports.  Sometimes you will require x amount of fuel at the most critical point, and have planned x amount of fuel left at that point.  It's up to you as PIC if you're comfortable with this - it means if you use ANY extra fuel along the way to this critical point, you will have less than x fuel required.  You could load extra fuel if you're uncomfortable with it.
  • All of this is usually a pre-flight requirement, in-flight, the rules change, and you can basically go to any airport that can accommodate your aircraft and is safe to land at, depending on your airline's policy etc...
  • I haven't mentioned weather minima for EDTO alternate selection - it's something that can vary between aircraft/airlines/regulations etc.  I am not with enough knowledge to give you a guide on this.  Maybe @dougsnow could give us a rough idea in this respect?  He is a real dispatcher and has a lot of knowledge (obviously!)  But you'll basically want to make sure you can land there given cloud, visibility, and crosswind component, with some margin.
  • I am happy to be corrected on any aspect of this...

 

 

Clear as mud?  Post if you have any more questions.

 

Cheers,

Rudy

 

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Many thanks to both Skyrock and VHOJT (Rudy) for links (Rudy, particular mention for your precise explanations, great!)

Merci ! (= thanks)

 

Greetings from Chartres (near LFOR airfield), France.

Dominique.

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8 hours ago, VHOJT said:

The 737 will have its APU on from take-off to EDTO exit

 

Hello Rudy,

 

This would depend on the 737 variant ?

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I don't think so - I think it must be on from take-off until EDTO exit.  It cannot be started in flight (reliably) from what I've read.

 

Perhaps someone can confirm for us?

 

Cheers,

Rudy

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The FCOM for 'NG' variants states that the APU ( Allied Signal ) starts and operates up to the airplane maximum certified altitude, 41,000ft

 

Also from the Boeing Edge bulletin:

 

Quote

As a result of accumulated service experience and recent design changes, operators of the next-generation 737 are now able to operate the auxiliary power unit (Apu) on demand in lieu of running it continuously during the extended range operations (ETOPS) portion of a flight

.

 

There may be a Manual Bulletin overiding this of course, and earlier 737 variants with different APU's have lower APU operating levels and quite possibly start requirements.

 

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