Dovetail Flight Sim World

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

25 minutes ago, tonyc said:

I am pleased to se that Aerosoft are I hope taking a centre route and not allying themselves just to Dovetail Games products

 

Ho ho.... it's just the fact there is no SDK and the fact some elements (such as lightning) are not fixed that stops us from at least experimenting with add-ons. We would love to see how our Airbusses work in that sim platform.

 

27 minutes ago, tonyc said:

I wish you well in what must be a messy and uncertain FS world right now.

 

We love it! For the first time in a decade we see real progress in the sims and basically we will work on any platform where we can find customers. We love P3d V4 for sure as it it the state of the art right now, but FSX is long from dead and X-Plane 11 is potentially as good as P3D V4 is. The moment that sim gets real seasons etc it might just as well steal the throne!

[pmb 139]

vor 7 Minuten, Mathijs Kok sagte:

We love it! For the first time in a decade we see real progress in the sims and basically we will work on any platform where we can find customers. 

Including AeroflyFS2?

 

Thanks and kind regards, Michael

[PatrickZ 300]

Without having read the whole threat, this is what I think of Flight Sim World.

 

In my opinion Flight Sim World is a platform for starters, for people that don't have any experience with flightsimming so far but are willing to give it a go. The fact that it's on Steam makes that it's available to a wide public, so it's likely to gain some new flightsimmers.

 

It's not a platform for the more experienced flightsimmer. For those there's a far more advanced platform available, a platform called P3D v4. The new simmers that are gained with FSW will, if they're serious with their new found hobby, after a while also move on to P3D v4. That makes FSW an inbetween platform, a platform for starters. I, as an experienced flightsimmer, would never give it a go. My future lies with P3D and so does the future of those who will discover flightsimming on FSW.

 

Does that mean you shouldn't develop add-ons for FSW? Of course you should, but not the most difficult ones like the Airbus. Sceneries would do great, specially if they got a shared licence with P3D v4 so people who start with FSW won't have to buy them again when they move on. Simple aircraft like the Twin Otter or Wilga would also do it. But FSW is not the end goal, that'll always be P3D.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

3 hours ago, pmb said:

Including AeroflyFS2?

 

Thanks and kind regards, Michael

 

Absolutely.

 

Aerosoft will go where the customers are. We do not believe we should be the ones who decide that is a suitable platform. Our customers make that decision. If you look at our P3d V4 compatibility list you will see that does not mean we lack behind support of new platforms. We are by far the company that supports most platforms. 

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

9 minutes ago, PatrickZ said:

In my opinion Flight Sim World is a platform for starters, for people that don't have any experience with flightsimming so far but are willing to give it a go. The fact that it's on Steam makes that it's available to a wide public, so it's likely to gain some new flightsimmers.

 

But FSW is not the end goal, that'll always be P3D.

 

Well that is for sure not what Dovetail wants, they want to replace FSX. After all they are paying a lot to Mama Microsoft to get us hobbiest as customers while leaving the professional customers to Lockheed.

[PatrickZ 300]

Just now, Mathijs Kok said:

 

Well that is for sure not what Dovetail wants, they want to replace FSX. After all they are paying a lot to Mama Microsoft to get us hobbiest as customers while leaving the professional customers to Lockheed.

 

Of course it's not what Dovetail wants, but it's how it turns out to be. P3D is the more serious replacement of FSX and the platform that the more serious simmers prefer. Of course there's also a role for FSW, that's the starter and the less serious simmer. FSW, being on Steam, has a far wider market offset than P3D which is hardly known outside the flightsimming community. As a regular non-flightsimmer you're far more likely to stumble upon FSW than P3D, and that's good. In that way FSW has it's role in attracting new flightsimmers. But once they get more serious they hear about P3D and they move on.

[pmb 139]

vor 45 Minuten, PatrickZ sagte:

In my opinion Flight Sim World is a platform for starters, for people that don't have any experience with flightsimming so far but are willing to give it a go.

I keep hearing this from time to time but I can't agree. If you like to go with Steam, there are choices like FSX:SE, XP11, and AeroflyFS2. All three have easy to handle and state of the art interfaces now. All three allow you to just start a free flight at an airport of your choice (AeroflyFS2 within the limits of the default scenery). FSX has plenty of books/tutorials available, XP11 comes with an excellent manual and AeroflyFS2, while not comparable to the first two, has an introductory tutorial, too. All three come with sort of in-game flight schools, if I am not mistaken. All three provide a remarkable choice of default planes, contrary to FSW with just a handfull of Pipers right now.  The letter two are 64 bits and are extensible ad infinitum, should you want to go that way later.

 

Why should a beginner choose FSW, even more as it's in its infancy and still bug-prone?

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

12 hours ago, pmb said:

Why should a beginner choose FSW, even more as it's in its infancy and still bug-prone?

 

Actually a very good comment. The reasons who advanced simmers needed a new version (cause we were running out of resources like FPS and VAS) are not really an issue for a beginning user. 

[Kaashaas 9]

I've been thinking of an answer for a few days now. I've abandoned FSW and stick to FSX:SE for a few reasons. Some are probably specific for my system since not everyone suffers the same things, but for me my system is what counts.

 

The look and feel of the sim is very much the same as FSX. Sure, under the hood it is fixed up in many ways, but apart from some effects (the twitching gauges and needles, some light effects) all is the same. For now they're the unique sellingpoints of FSW, but to me that's just to small a difference to leave my FSX investments behind.

 

If I am to switch platforms I am going for that shock-and-awe feeling; the wow-factor! I want to have the feeling that I am experiencing what I know, but then times ten! (A bit fague, I know, but it's a feeling of excitement I'm going for.) After all, I have a pretty stable and well functioning FSX with a lot of money involved in it that I leave behind when switching. So 'this better be good'. For now, to me, it's not nearly good enough to trigger that effect. I had that feeling with XP10 for example, which is my second platform.

 

And there's, for me, the other thing. For now there's nothing in FSW that isn't covered or matched in XP10. Both lack the PMDG-like aircraft and weathe engine for example and tweaking-wise XP10 performs way better.

For me the idiot-proof settingsscreen in FSW (and XP11) is something that holds me back.

 

I will give FSW another chance when it's finished. But from what I've seen now I find it 'more of the same', but without the features that would make enough difference to leave previous investments behind.

 

 

Grtz., Hans

[Kaashaas 9]

 

Of course it's not what Dovetail wants, but it's how it turns out to be. P3D is the more serious replacement of FSX and the platform that the more serious simmers prefer. Of course there's also a role for FSW, that's the starter and the less serious simmer. FSW, being on Steam, has a far wider market offset than P3D which is hardly known outside the flightsimming community. As a regular non-flightsimmer you're far more likely to stumble upon FSW than P3D, and that's good. In that way FSW has it's role in attracting new flightsimmers. But once they get more serious they hear about P3D and they move on.

 

Personally, I don't see how P3D would be more realistic or serious compared to FSX. It isn't. The seriousness of sim (whatever that might be in the first place) is in the eye of the beholder. That's a marketing thing; simmers like to match reality as much as possible with that romantic real-pilot-for-a-night vibe around it.

 

By marketing P3D as only to be used by real pilots or men who are training to be real pilots they generate an inclusive and distinguished experience. That's great by the way and does no harm, but is just an illusion ofcourse. Whether someone's using P3D, FSX, XP11 of FSW, nobody's getting his paychecks signed by KLM because of it, we're still sitting behind our desks in between the washingmachine and the boiler and we won't have our ATPL's valid when landing a PMDG NGX. ;-) So what's 'serious simming' to begin with.

 

 

Grtz., Hans

[harrry 37]

I will never buy another Steam product till it puts a notice on the store that XXX an aeoroplane has had the liveries removed.  Caught once...after several other purchases...when I bought an airplane to use in a VA environment which required a livery which was included in the original pack.

[Aerosoft Team [Inactive Account] 51558]

Dovetail has very strict rules on licenses and will never allow any brand used without it being fully licensed. For an complex aircraft product like the Airbus that means that part of the money you go is for Steam (30%), part for Dovetails (30%), part for Airbus and part for all the liveries included. Can you imagine how much is left for the developer and the publisher?

[lordweedy 15]

38 minutes ago, Mathijs Kok said:

 For an complex aircraft product like the Airbus that means that part of the money you go is for Steam (30%), part for Dovetails (30%), part for Airbus and part for all the liveries included. Can you imagine how much is left for the developer and the publisher?

 

That's what made me decide not to buy FSW. In my view  a simulator should be a base plateform that provides the engine and physics and stop there. Microsoft never took a dime from  third party developers and thats what helped launch the addon scene, with non professional developers able to provide free addons. I remember back in the day when the project airbus came out. It was very limited but nontheless it helped me learn about the airbus philosophy and if it were not for that addon I might probably have stopped flightsimming for good. when I came back to the hobby 3 years ago i came across your a320 and bought that.  then the fslabs one. now I'm waiting eagerly for the 330.

 

The simple , free project airbus, developed by a few dedicated  people with no budget or infrastructure  opened the pandora box for me, now  I bought a weather addon and multiple sceneries and all this came from a humble  free addon  that couldn't have existed if microsoft had taken the  dovetail approach.

 

I had high  hopes for FSW before its release,  it was even before any rumors that  p3dv4 would be 64bits so I really wished FSW would be a  big step from FSX even better than P3Dv3 but  when I saw the first reviews and  streams   when FSW was released I was hugely disapointed.  graphically it looked no better than fsx, no default airliner  when fsx 10 years ago  had   a few. No way to tweak your weather? no way to start at the gate  ?  It feels like a  phone app nothing more.

 

I understand the need for simplicity for beginers,  i was glad when I started to have basic aircrafts that you could flight without turning any knobs and fly patterns with them and aiming for that market is fine. But not providing a base plateform for more advanced users was a big mistake in my  opinion  because thats where the money is a beginner will buy the sim and thats it,  an advanced  user will spend several hundreds  on his sim.

 

There marketing team probably wanted to bring a 64bit  sim to the market before LM thinking that would get them a few more sales but by doing so they  brought a half assed product no worth giving any consideration. If they had put  half the effort in their product as they did in marketing their sim  it might have been better.

 

All I see for now  is a pathetic attempt at ripping off cutomers and  hard working devs. I've bought P3Dv4,  i'm investing in that sim  because it actually does the  job and support the developers  who bring good professional addons to the market buy buying their products  knowing that they'll get the money they deserve.

 

As long as dovetail will keep  their comercial strategy  I'm  never buy FSW or any addon  made for it.

 

[vin747 88]

I own FSX & XP11 (which is my primary sim)...  At some point I will sunset FSX & replace it with P3D V4. Incidentally, I also bought FSW on steam even after seeing all the videos and reviews which were mostly negative. and the main reason was it was damn cheap on steam - only 10$ in my country.. 

 

But I'm smart enough not to download & install it on my machine. .it is just not worth my time and hard disk space.. in the future, when they integrate it with TruSky, maybe i might install it then.. (check out TruSky video by the way)..

 

here's why i didnt install it:

 

1. no WOW factor (yes 64-bit, VC rain, PBR are all good, but nothing new or nothing that goes beyond what X-plane does)

2. no addons except good GA

3. mainly for beginners, gamers.. not serious simmers

4. poor FPS in spite of not having any wow factor or goodies

4. dovetail communication model is the worst in the world.. absolutely no transparency.. they should take lessons from Aerosoft on how to preview a product, get user feedback, etc).. Dovetail worked in total secrecy and came out with a very inferior product and now they've gone back into a shell..