Goshob 23 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Hi, I had several unsuccessful approaches to Munich recently and would appreciate, if I can get some advice here. I am flying A320-200 using FSX-SE on Windows 10, 64 b and Navigraph charts cycle 1701. The approach is using STAR ANOR2A, via ROKIL 08. Target is landing on RWY 08L using ILS. There is a turn between wp DM412 and DM427 where the aircraft should turn on almost 360 degrees. What happens is that the computer makes 2 arcs approaching stated wps, which obviously are not connected properly in the middle and makes the autopilot crazy. It leads the aircraft to undefined direction after passing DM412. WP DM427 remains as the next wp in the memory and the autopilot is always looking for it when switched on. I tried to fly the aircraft manually and put it back in the road, but it is impossible to follow the STAR anymore (or I do not know how). Even the flight vectors received from the controller doesn't help. Would appreciate if someone can comment on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus3xiG3 118 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 You are using STAR and Transition, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Yes. I am using STAR ANOR2A. You can check it on the airport charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericfoto 0 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 That turn shouldn't be a problem, the bus will make a wider turn but continue to DM427, what happens if you select the Direct to option and choose DM427? Which transition do you select? Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Hi, I was also thinking that the turn should not be a problem, but unfortunately it becomes such. I will share my memory here only because I am out of station for some time. Just before reaching DM412 the computer draws an arc for the right turn going into course 171, which the autopilot follows. Before reaching the center of the turn, approaching DM427, another arc is drawn for the second right turn to follow course 262 and DM427 becomes the next WP in the flight plan. When the plane reaches the connecting point between the 2 arcs the autopilot gets confused and the plane stops following the second arc. The plane is diverted somewhere east, which has nothing to do with the road and skips DM427, no matter that it is the next WP in the plan. I will try to use DIR function to DM426 or whatever the next WP is, however this will be done after some time when I come back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus3xiG3 118 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'm not an Approach Controller, but I am controlling at Munich... As far as I know, STARs and Transitions are never used together! Depending on the situation the controller will either give you an arrival route and then vectors to the ILS or he clears you on a transition, which you are following until the ILS. So, as it isn't done like this in real life, I won't do it in the sim... As real as possible ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted January 24, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 hours ago, Lotus3xiG3 said: As far as I know, STARs and Transitions are never used together! You know wrong. Stars and transitions are used together most of the time. The transition just gets "modified/shortened" to get an optimimum traffic feed for the director and tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Hi, I believe that it was clear from my first post that I was trying to follow a STAR approach in order to land on RWYILS08L. I do admit that in this particular flight I did not request any vectors from the flight controller, which will be tried on my next attempt to use the same road. My main concern and inquiry was what happens with the course between WP DM412 and 427 and how to solve such situation when the autopilot gets "confused" and leads the plane into completely different direction than needed. I would highly appreciate if someone can comment and suggest in such direction. I will post a snapshot soon from the course soon where it can be clearly seen how 2 arcs are connected into a very strange way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted January 25, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted January 25, 2017 We have seen these problems at some polish transitions that have more or less the same build. Your problem is with two waypoints on the ROKIL08 transition btw. I will try to fly this turn on my next beta flight and see how the current code handles it. The best thing to do when you see something like is, is to fly the track using HDG mode and try an DIR TO to DM425 after DM412 for example to get back on track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus3xiG3 118 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 vor 6 Stunden , The Dude sagte: You know wrong. Hah, there you go! vor 37 Minuten, Goshob sagte: I will post a snapshot soon from the course soon where it can be clearly seen how 2 arcs are connected into a very strange way. Some screenshots would be perfect! Photos of the ND, specific part of the flightplan and the autopilot section should be enough... vor 10 Minuten, The Dude sagte: I will try to fly this turn on my next beta flight and see how the current code handles it. The best thing to do when you see something like is, is to fly the track using HDG mode and try an DIR TO to DM425 after DM412 for example to get back on track. That was my plan too for today . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 It would be perfect, if you guys can try the road as stated. I am unfortunately out and will come back only during the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Hi, I tried to fly again transition ROKIL 08. Unfortunately the situation between DM412 and DM427 is same as stated above. The only option, which I managed to apply was using DIR to DM423. I am curious what this could be and if someone else is facing same situation. Please login to display this image. Please login to display this image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted January 26, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted January 26, 2017 Could you first try to fly the transition as it should be flown? Correct altitude profile and speed please. Being in FL240 with an TAS of 398kt is asking for trouble. Try 8000 feet with 220-240kt and see what it does then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEK_the_Reaper 233 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think the Dude is right! I fly many times into EDDM and flown the ROK08 just yesterday INB from EGKK. As I observed the flight path is drawn taking into consideration your speed and max bank angle. To conclude, if your speed is too high, the drawn arc will have a bigger radius. Flown correctly, you will get a "U- shaped" path (arc-straight line-arc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus3xiG3 118 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I came from Frankfurt and tried ILS08L via ANORA2A and ROKIL08-Transition. Being at FL080 with 260kts at DM412, it was no problem to turn right to DM427 and continue on the route... On the ND I could see this "U"-shaped path mentioned by @GEK_the_Reaper , which connects those two waypoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 23 hours ago, The Dude said: Could you first try to fly the transition as it should be flown? Correct altitude profile and speed please. Being in FL240 with an TAS of 398kt is asking for trouble. Try 8000 feet with 220-240kt and see what it does then. Hi, Thank you for the support! Unfortunately I could not find what the correct speed for the transition should be, but while flying it on FL80 (as stated on the Navigraph chart ILS or LOC 08L) with speed of 240 kn, everything with turns on DM412 and DM427 went normal. The altitude was reduced to 5000 ft after passing DM420 in order to meet the requirements of MAGAT. There was no localiser and GS, but I could land on RWY 8L visually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus3xiG3 118 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 vor 3 Minuten, Goshob sagte: Hi, Thank you for the support! Unfortunately I could not find what the correct speed for the transition should be, but while flying it on FL80 (as stated on the Navigraph chart ILS or LOC 08L) with speed of 240 kn, everything with turns on DM412 and DM427 went normal. The altitude was reduced to 5000 ft after passing DM420 in order to meet the requirements of MAGAT. There was no localiser and GS, but I could land on RWY 8L visually... So we have a "problem solved", right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshob 23 Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Yes! Thanks to all who were so nice to help!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus3xiG3 118 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 vor 7 Minuten, Goshob sagte: Yes! Thanks to all who were so nice to help!!!! Alright, perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deputy Sheriffs The Dude 6537 Posted January 28, 2017 Deputy Sheriffs Share Posted January 28, 2017 Because we believe this topic has been answered we have closed it. If you have any more questions feel free to open a new topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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