Mathijs Kok

Connected Flight Deck, your input wanted

68 posts in this topic

we need matching system.

I think port forwardind is not easy for all people. except IT engineer(I am). but teaching to other people, that's too diffiuclt to set up.

and hamachi. that's bad for security. i don't know, friends are safety or not.

but if we flight with other pilot who we don't know each other, we don't want to use Hamachi(but some people use that, I cant understand).

so. that's all :)

 

and we need version checker and error message on connected flight deck. some people don't care "patch"(that's sad), then we need 1 hour to fix it.

cause, these guys dont tell us about their version and patch.

 

anyway, I like connected flight deck so much!

thank you , AEROSOFT. we will cheer you up.

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If you can integrate shared cockpit fuctionality like TFDI have done, then that would be awesome.  Using Hamachi and having to disable firewalls to get it to work properly is not ideal at all.

 

I like the initiative and the fact that you seem to be focused on this as a mainstream feature of future airliner products.

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I myself have to agree with all of the above. The Hamachi system and what not is kinda annoying to go through. I find that the system Majestic developped for their Q400 is innovating and very interesting as to how it works 'cause it's really easy to use. if we could some how use the current bus interface to connect (second MCDU) and use the Majestic way to link the 2 systems (via the MJC Q400 Panel), it would truly be wonderful !

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Okay we'll check that system of Majestic. To be honest I have not used it.

 

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vor 2 Stunden , blackbird971 sagte:

I myself have to agree with all of the above. The Hamachi system and what not is kinda annoying to go through. I find that the system Majestic developped for their Q400 is innovating and very interesting as to how it works 'cause it's really easy to use. if we could some how use the current bus interface to connect (second MCDU) and use the Majestic way to link the 2 systems (via the MJC Q400 Panel), it would truly be wonderful !

 

As far as I know the Majestic system still uses port forwarding / Hamachi, but only via an external control panel and a 2D popup in the sim itself. I like the MCDU option better, quite frankly. I also don't find it too hard/unsafe to use port forwarding or Hamachi, as long as you're not Edward Snowden or some CEO of a big tech company, there is absolutely no safety concern. 

As far as the initial question of this topic goes, I really can't think of anything. The main goal of Connected Flightdeck is to synchronize two sims with eachother and provide a true multi-crew experience. I think the upcoming A330 and maybe even the CRJ in the future will expand the spectrum of CFD, since those addons will be a bit more (much more, in the case of the CRJ) complex than the current A320 series. The main aim of CFD should be a good connection and as little connectivity bugs as possible. I've had some strange behaviours with the FMS and VNAV in the MJC Q400 when flying CFD but those could mainly be attributed to a bad/weak connection. My question to Mathijs would be - what new features are planned for the A330 CFD, for instance? Maybe we can get an idea on what's possible and go on from there?

 

PS: Can't wait to hear about the airliner project we all know nothing about! :P

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20 minutes ago, CRJ900 said:

 

As far as I know the Majestic system still uses port forwarding / Hamachi, but only via an external control panel and a 2D popup in the sim itself. I like the MCDU option better, quite frankly. I also don't find it too hard/unsafe to use port forwarding or Hamachi, as long as you're not Edward Snowden or some CEO of a big tech company, there is absolutely no safety concern. 

As far as the initial question of this topic goes, I really can't think of anything. The main goal of Connected Flightdeck is to synchronize two sims with eachother and provide a true multi-crew experience. I think the upcoming A330 and maybe even the CRJ in the future will expand the spectrum of CFD, since those addons will be a bit more (much more, in the case of the CRJ) complex than the current A320 series. The main aim of CFD should be a good connection and as little connectivity bugs as possible. I've had some strange behaviours with the FMS and VNAV in the MJC Q400 when flying CFD but those could mainly be attributed to a bad/weak connection. My question to Mathijs would be - what new features are planned for the A330 CFD, for instance? Maybe we can get an idea on what's possible and go on from there?

 

PS: Can't wait to hear about the airliner project we all know nothing about! :P


From what I know, it's a system that works like Hamachi but it's not Hamachi itself and doesn't ask to download a 3rd party software with disabled anti virus and what not. So their system is more advance/trust worthy than Hamichi. I rarely got a problem or hear someone complain about a problem with MJC8 Q400 Control Panel's shared cockpit system compared to Hamachi ;)

But then again, that's just my 2 cent.

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I have to say I don't have any experience on connected flight decks, but thinking of a simpler solution I kind of think about how TeamViewer makes it's connections. Nobody needs to setup anything for that, as long as you got an internet connection it just works. I assume they got a server somewhere that connects the two together and uses the ID and password to match them.

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For such kind of service a need a centralised infrastructure. Not only to manage the "invitation codes" to link the two partners (TeamViewer uses the partner id and password for that), but also for the data streams which are routed through the servers.

 

If you have a central server (or server cluster) there is no need for the user to configure any IP addresses (as the server would have just one URL, something like cfd.aerosoft.com). The communication could also be routed through standard ports like HTTP (80) which are opened everywhere in every device. So it could become a zero configuration solution.

 

But, this is only possible with some centralised infrastructure which needs to be kept alive in order to have such a CFD working.

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maybe as a "subscription service" ?

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What about emulating the decentralized match-making system used by Rockstar for GTA 5?

Their multiplayer requires no centralized servers for match-making, sessions, lobbies, etc. It also does not depend on port forwarding as it uses UPNP (universal plug and play). 

 

How would this world for CFD:

- The user would set-up a user name & sets his status to 'available for session' or would click 'join session/look for partner'.

- The user can search other people based on a username to their friend list for easy connect. 

- The user can send invites to friends or look through a list of users currently set to 'available for session' to create a match. 

- The user can send request to join an in-progress session as an observer of somebody who is in his friend list

- Built-in VOIP comms would be set-up when a session is joined and off they go.

(Don't know about the feasibility, that is for your dev's to decide) 

 

This allows people to find a partner, besides flying with their friends. I feel that one of the shortcomings of CFD is finding a partner, so it would be great if this could be incorporated into the program. 

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4 minutes ago, JustinZockt_ said:

Yes, please integrate Connected Flight Deck :)

 

On 1/19/2017 at 1:25 PM, Mathijs Kok said:

We like to know what you would like to see different from the current version. What new features would you like, what made the old one hard to use?

 

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4 hours ago, KLM737 said:

What about emulating the decentralized match-making system used by Rockstar for GTA 5?

Their multiplayer requires no centralized servers for match-making, sessions, lobbies, etc. It also does not depend on port forwarding as it uses UPNP (universal plug and play). 

 

How would this world for CFD:

- The user would set-up a user name & sets his status to 'available for session' or would click 'join session/look for partner'.

- The user can search other people based on a username to their friend list for easy connect. 

- The user can send invites to friends or look through a list of users currently set to 'available for session' to create a match. 

- The user can send request to join an in-progress session as an observer of somebody who is in his friend list

- Built-in VOIP comms would be set-up when a session is joined and off they go.

(Don't know about the feasibility, that is for your dev's to decide) 

 

This allows people to find a partner, besides flying with their friends. I feel that one of the shortcomings of CFD is finding a partner, so it would be great if this could be incorporated into the program. 

agree sort of like the steam meeting room or waiting room. Not everything can fly all the time so when your up for a flight find someone who can fly at the same time you can easier.

 

Also great idea with built in VOIP comms... logical step

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I'm okay with such a server, only so long as the ability to connect directly without a server is maintained, so we're not server reliant for connections or security.

 

 

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Ability to switch who controls the aircraft, unless this is already possible by switching the master and secondary connection from the second MCDU. Seem to recall that only the master connection can control the aircraft.

 

Syncing issues, such as doors not synced on both ends of the connection. For example, I join with my friend and my left front door will be open, yet his is closed.

 

The barometers have to be set at both ends of the connection, rather than being synced across.

 

Sometimes fuel and cargo loading through the secondary MCDU can be different or not load properly. This caused one of our flights to give 2 different speeds on approach and we weren't entirely sure which one of us was right - we decided to continue our approach and landed successfully, but we were very tempted to go around and look at the issue in more detail.

 

I've also noticed the connection can occasionally drop out. This isn't always noticed straight away, especially when cruising along and not really changing anything, but as soon as one of us tries to change something, that's when we notice that the screens or buttons aren't moving for the other person.

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

 

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Here are some thoughts I had on Connected Flight Deck (Some already mentioned above).

 

- Ability to connect to another pilot without the need of 3rd party applications. (Hamachi etc.)

- Aerosoft in house server with built in VOIP features would be neat. 

- Possibility of connecting via the f.o FMGS? For example: In order to connect to the Aerosoft Server, pilots must have an account on the forums. This would allow the 2nd pilot to connect to the session via their forum username? All of this could possibly be done with current technology.

- Charge a separate fee for Connected Flight Deck feature which would help pay for server bandwidth. Or, maybe a monthly fee? I know because I run multiple servers of my own and it does cost considerable amount of money. (maintenance, upgrades etc). 

- A separate fee would allow fellow pilots the option to purchase it or not. 

- A single point of connection within a dedicated server would help with syncing issues.

- A connected flight deck schedule? Run by Aerosoft. It would randomly pair two pilots together, from anywhere in the world. (social aspect would be neat). This could also incorporate awards and could allow the pilots to progress through ranks. (Second Officer, F.O, Caption etc). Fly flights with others and gain career progression?

 

Just a couple of thoughts.

 

Cheers,

 

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I don't need it anyway. In my Opinion, the Development Time, that has to be spent for the Realization should better be invested in new Aircraft like A350 or the Neos. Just my Opinion.

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While easier connection making would be good for people who don't often share a cockpit together, in my opinion it's not the most critical point (if you're flying in a regular group, you will have your own reliable VPN setup anyway). I'd rather wish for the following features:

  • Introducing a full-featured right-side FMS/MCDU (hiding sim controls in some menu like PMDG or Majestic do) or simply being able to switching FMS/MCDU sides when sitting in the right-hand seat. At the moment it feels a bit odd to only have sim controls accessible on the right side.
  • Full state transfer (automatically upon connection, periodically and maybe manually as an option). That's a feature that isn't available in the Majestic as well but AFAIR TFDi said they would have implemented it in their 717 (which I couldn't test in shared cockpit yet as I've told everyone else to stay off until some critical issues have been patched). At the moment, if you connect late (or if you should reconnect after a sim crash) aircrafts are out of sync - switches are in the wrong position, FMC is blank etc. Would be sort of a "premium" feature but if you're reimplementing it anyway, maybe that's possible? :)
  • An option to choose whose position/state is going to be synced from when connecting. (not sure if that's already implemented as both aircrafts need to share the same initial state anyway at the moment)
  • Better syncing of the Airbus' MCDU state - when I flew with a friend we noticed that while eventually the same (or at least reasonably similar) values seem to be effective, those changes are not always visible on the other computer. If there would be 2 MCDU instances (one on left, one on right side) it would be nice to also see how they are being entered (i.e. sync each MCDU key press). Might also be an issue with syncing P3D and FSX, which brings me to the next point...
  • Platform interoperability - this seems already be working at least between P3D v3 and FSX:SE in the current Airbus versions and while I haven't heard of any other aircraft that would have had issues with interoperability, I'd like to stress how important that point is. This year we may see 64 bit versions such as Dovetail's FS and (hopefully) P3D v4 - depending on how state transfer is being implemented (i.e. effectively transferring just memory dumps or using an actual abstract protocol), this point may require some additional planning ahead, so that there are no incompatibilities later on.
  • No switches/knobs should be excluded from sync; I don't remember exactly which ones I encountered problems with but at least QNH has already been mentioned above.
  • I've also encountered some issues with door controls but that may just have been some sort of PEBKAC...

Apart from these points, connected flightdeck seems to already be in a rather good (yet not fully complete) state as it is right now, so keep up the good work! :) 

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Additional to the pure technical reasons, which are already discussed in this forum,

I would wish some downloadable Check-Lists for the two "real" Pilots to increase the teamwork in the cockpit.

 

Thanks for the possibility to ask for more here and thanks for the already done work in case of connected flightdeck.

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Hi there,

 

thank you for being available to get input from users.

 

Not going deep in the issues related top multi-crew on which I have no experience, I would like to suggest to have all checklists activated by a key combination and not automatically triggered by specific events / states in the simulator. This would avoid the overlapping of checklists spelling with ATC communications which is quite annoying because the pilot has to wait for the checklist to end and than request ATC to "say again" to be able to hear the instructions correctly. In real life pilots simply shut up when they perceive ATC is talking to their flight and resume it when they feel it is appropriate. Therefore, the virtual pilots should also have the possibility of choosing the right moment to go through the checklist and perhaps even interrupt it (e.g. to hear ATC or to focus on a more urgent task related to flying the aircraft), possibly using the very same key combination, and resume it at a more convenient moment later on.

 

Thank you.

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4 hours ago, Antonio Abreu said:

Hi there,

 

thank you for being available to get input from users.

 

Not going deep in the issues related top multi-crew on which I have no experience, I would like to suggest to have all checklists activated by a key combination and not automatically triggered by specific events / states in the simulator. This would avoid the overlapping of checklists spelling with ATC communications which is quite annoying because the pilot has to wait for the checklist to end and than request ATC to "say again" to be able to hear the instructions correctly. In real life pilots simply shut up when they perceive ATC is talking to their flight and resume it when they feel it is appropriate. Therefore, the virtual pilots should also have the possibility of choosing the right moment to go through the checklist and perhaps even interrupt it (e.g. to hear ATC or to focus on a more urgent task related to flying the aircraft), possibly using the very same key combination, and resume it at a more convenient moment later on.

 

Thank you.

 

Could you not just print out the checklists and read them as and when you please?

 

There is a Shared Cockpit checklist located in the Airbus A320 folder within your simulator.

That's what I use. Then you can shut up whenever ATC want to speak to you :)

 

Regards,

Tom

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3 hours ago, tomkellock92 said:

Hi Tom,

thank you for the sugestion. 

 

unfortunately that option is like going back in time. I like paperless cockpits and currently airlines seem to like them too. A key combination that we could use in a joystick button to start / resume the current checklist would really do the trick without going back to the old days.

 

:)

 

Happy landings,

Antonio

 

3 hours ago, tomkellock92 said:

Could you not just print out the checklists and read them as and when you please?

 

There is a Shared Cockpit checklist located in the Airbus A320 folder within your simulator.

That's what I use. Then you can shut up whenever ATC want to speak to you :)

 

Regards,

Tom

 

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