Mega Airport Frankfurt v2 VAS Use

[FWAviation 484]

Dear Aerosoft team, I know you are busy, but it would be really nice to get some sort of status update or at least the feeling that you or the German Airports team are still having a look into the FPS and VAS problems. There are quite a few paying customers out there who are still struggling with these problems, and it has become eerily silent on that part from your side. Thank you.

[jmorvay1971 11]

I've learned to play the waiting game for this airport in particular.  On a somewhat related note, two nights ago, I bought Aerosoft MegaAirport Helsinki, banking on the description it was compatible with P3D, but it didn't say what version.  After install, I noticed something looked pretty "defaulty" with the airport so checking the scenery library, I noticed it never got placed into the library.  A quick fix for that (manual insertion) and everything looked great, as it should be.  The performance was actually pretty good in v3.2 and I can use that airport just fine, but for EDDF, it is a performance killer and now it's a choice of whether I fly out of EDDF all the time in order to use it, or I just wait for a fix, if it ever intended to be done.

[Cargostorm 98]

On 20.6.2016 at 12:02, Cargostorm sagte:

I also realize that the APIS,  Aicraft Positioning and Information System, at the gate depends on camera position and not on aircraft position. Thus, when sitting on the captain or FO seat, when following the left/right arrows of the APIS, the front wheel and hence aircraft is misaligned and NOT on the yellow line. I would prefer that the docking system would depend on the aircraft position rather than the camera position. If you sit in the FO seat, the aircraft is otherwise misaligned to the left, and on the captain's side to the right.

 

Does anybody experience this as well ?

[DUAS 6]

I have no VAS problems with EDDF, do not know why, but it's perfect. For P3D there was an update last week and in description they wrote, they solved a memory problem also, which was reported by some users.

Tha APIS works also fine. It works really only from the cockpit, if you go outside, nothing is shown. It is not the same like old teaking methodes from FS9, which are working in FSX, but not in P3D. I think, they did something new and other developers like FlyTampa only show the distance, not the directions in P3D. So, it is a great progress. I like EDDF and I can do flights between Heathrow and Frankfurt without VAS problems.

[cannow 1]

On ‎26‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 3:31 PM, Terblanche said:

@Er!k - when I load FSX on EDDF at the gate I will get 20-22 FPS and VAS is ± what Mathijs and TomA320 shows. As I taxi around it will drop below 20 but I can fly out of EDDF without an OOM. The problems begin when I fly into EDDF and twice now, from different airports on short finals at EDDF the OOM zap me right out of FSX.

 

@Mathijs Kok - I didn't say, 'with no impact on VAS', I said with very little impact on FPS. Sometimes the VAS will get dangerously close to 4GB but the sim still runs (relatively) smooth e.g. EGLL (Aerosoft) is well below 20 FPS and the VAS is ± 3600 with ALL surrounding airports turned off. As I approach EDDF the FPS starts to fall and the VAS starts to rise. Somewhere between 3500 and the 4GB threshold it trips. All seems fine with ± 400 or 500 MB left and then all of a sudden it just bombs out.

When I disable AI traffic and have no ASN / EFB / ProATC the frame rates are marginally higher and the VAS only a fraction lower. As I say, the problem is not loading a flight with an aircraft standing on the tarmac at EDDF ... the problem is arriving at EDDF with an Aerosoft or PMDG aircraft ... if the VAS suddenly spikes, it will simply return you to desktop.

I have just hit exactly the same issue with EGLL prep3d 3.5.5 Lam 3a approach in site of airport vas rises to 3.6 ok can live that but then spikes trying uk 2000 scenary and able to land. Whatever I load or disble still cannot land.

[Terblanche 118]

@cannow - it is really, really important to switch off ALL airports except your departure and arrival airport when you fly to the new EGLL, EDDT, and EDDF. With all other airports, it is possible on my rig to have ALL scenery active but the moment you try this with above mentioned, I get an OOM on my system. Try a flight from EDDF to EGLL (both Aerosoft) and deactivate everything else except these two airports. First try it with NO weather (especially ASN) and then with it. I'm using SceneryConfigEditor 1.1.7 and created some groups that I can easily activate and deactivate when I have to fly to one of the mentioned airports. You may consider it if you haven't done so already.

To summarise what I've done to contain OOMs at these specific airports (because they don't occur with any other scenery that I have) -

1. Keep LOD Radius in fsx.cfg to 4.5 and don't go higher

2. Deactivate all addon scenery except the dep/arr airport

3. Keep AI traffic at 15% or lower (more than enough traffic to keep it interesting)

4. Careful with ASN because 3+ layers with overcast clouds will kill VAS

5. Lower water settings will also help

Hope this helps ...

[crash 0]

Terblanche, I do have all but my Dep/Arrival airports turned on and only use airline density at 30%, general is turned off.  The fact is I shouldn't HAVE to go through all this just for an airport........it's ridiculous that I have to turn off/down so many things just to get this scenery from going over the VAS limit.  The fact is this scenery is all but unusable for what seems just about everyone who purchased it. 

[Tom A320 4915]

53 minutes ago, crash said:

The fact is I shouldn't HAVE to go through all this just for an airport... 

 

Seriously? You are running FSX and are not doing this? Wow. I wouldn't have survived any flight back when I was still on FSX...

 

53 minutes ago, crash said:

it's ridiculous that I have to turn off/down so many things just to get this scenery from going over the VAS limit.

 

This is not ridiculous but common practice actually. Not so much necessary under P3Dv3, but on *every* other FSX based sim.

By pushing FSX to it's limits you simply have no other choice nowadays than doing something like that, provided you want to use modern add-ons.

[FWAviation 484]

I'm sorry, Tom, but I strongly disagree. I am running FSX and until I bought EDDF v2, I never encountered OOMs (besides that one time I flew my new PMDG 777 in the tutorial flight from Malé to Dubai) before - while having all my airport add-ons activated. Your statement could be true for FSX users who own a low-end computer, but my example and the thousands of examples of other FSX users prove that FSX is very much usable without turning all "unnecessary" sceneries off if you have a not-too-weak computer and also keep an eye on your FSX settings.

 

And I must add that I find it quite worrying that you deal with justified criticism by a paying customer in such an almost ridiculing manner. "crash" is by far not the only user who encountered VAS problems and I wholeheartedly support his statement. Something must be wrong about a scenery add-on when a considerable number of users has severe performance problems when operating it in a configuration or a system that works perfectly or at least decently in all or at least most other use cases.

 

While I write these lines, the question I asked twice about the status of the troubleshooting by Aerosoft and/or the German Airports team is still left unanswered. This is why I am particularly disappointed to read comments like yours instead. All I (and I suppose many other paying customers who are affected by VAS problems while operating EDDF v2) am hoping for is some support - and if it's impossible to give technical support at this stage in time, it would be nice to get at least some moral support, some reassurance that the Aerosoft and/or German Airports team(s) are still investigating into the problem. Ridicule is no help whatsoever.

[Toohigh 0]

@Tom A320

 

Are you one of the Designers of GAP?

 

I know that a FS2004 Version was requested many times. Unfortunatly it was ignored.

 

My question is, If I would buy a EDDF Version for FSX, is it possible to convert it for FS9 myself?

 

I know that there must be a way, because I red that it is possible but it is not rentable.

 

I would make it if it is possible.

 

Hope you can answer my question.

 

 

[Cargostorm 98]

On 25.6.2016 at 14:49, DUAS sagte:

Tha APIS works also fine. It works really only from the cockpit, if you go outside, nothing is shown.

 
Really? In my case, APIS does also show position and distance if I am OUTSIDE the aircraft. That's the problem: it depends on camera position and not aircraft position (at least in P3D V3 and using EZDOK).

 

Regards,

Chris

[Tom A320 4915]

9 hours ago, Toohigh said:

Are you one of the Designers of GAP?

 

No, I am not, and unfortunately I don't know the answer to your question.

[Tom A320 4915]

9 hours ago, FWAviation said:

I'm sorry, Tom, but I strongly disagree. I am running FSX and until I bought EDDF v2, I never encountered OOMs (besides that one time I flew my new PMDG 777 in the tutorial flight from Malé to Dubai) before - while having all my airport add-ons activated. Your statement could be true for FSX users who own a low-end computer, but my example and the thousands of examples of other FSX users prove that FSX is very much usable without turning all "unnecessary" sceneries off if you have a not-too-weak computer and also keep an eye on your FSX settings.

 

My comment was a general comment on how to deal with modern high-end add-on on an old simulator, with memory limitations and furthermore a memory management model, which is not optimized for modern add-ons.

 

If you haven't had problems with OOMs so far, you are a very lucky guy. Lots of other users aren't that lucky and this has nothing to do with EDDFv2, but simply the fact that modern add-ons simply use more VAS and therefore drive FSX/P3D/P3Dv2 to their limits.

 

With a couple of AS Night Environments and tons of airports in Europe my FSX ran into OOMs more or less every time. The only solution for me back then was to use SIMstarter to comfortably enable/disable stuff I needed/not needed prior to starting FSX. With P3Dv3 I wasn't able to trigger any OOMs so far, but still use SIMstarter to only have that stuff loaded that I really need. That gives me a much better feeling while flying.

 

 

9 hours ago, FWAviation said:

and if it's impossible to give technical support at this stage in time, it would be nice to get at least some moral support, some reassurance that the Aerosoft and/or German Airports team(s) are still investigating into the problem

 

What gives you the impression, that after it has been stated clearly in this topic it is not happening?

 

 

9 hours ago, FWAviation said:

Ridicule is no help whatsoever.

 

A lot of hints and suggestions have been given. It has been clearly stated that the developers are looking into this. Where exactly is your "no help"? Please refrain from such conclusions if they simply are not the truth.

 

[FWAviation 484]

@Tom A320: Well, your initial statement didn't sound as balanced as it now does, it rather sounded as a general criticism of FSX and the people who still use it as their flight simulator. As I said: Your initial statement might be true for users with specific (weaker) systems and/or specific demanding add-ons. I can't judge on your settings or how demanding your FSX add-ons are, but judging by statements made here and in many other FS forums I follow, I'm apparently by far not the only "lucky guy" who is usually able to operate FSX quite decently even on his mediocre system without switching everything else off. And just like you, I operate my FSX with lots of add-ons, including many from Aerosoft. That's why I it was so noticeable that unlike all other add-ons I use, EDDF v2 brings my system to the knees.

 

Regarding your second statement/question: Well, as I said above - it had become very silent about the VAS issue from the Aerosoft side during the past few weeks, while the issue remained very acute for us, the users. Nobody expects daily or even weekly updates from you or your colleagues, but you can certainly understand that as a customer who would dearly like to use EDDF v2 without such problems and who repeatedly gets frustrated because those problems still persist, one feels more relieved if one asks for the current status and then gets at least a confirmation that the investigations are still underway and that our problems were not forgotten.

[daschla 29]

Just my 2 cents: sceneries, aircrafts, AI Traffic, clouds etc. are becoming more and more complex so that at the end, more VAS is needed. There are indeed huges differences between VAS consumption between different airports which brings me to the conclusion, that there a different kind of techniques in programming an airport. As long as the flight simulator remains a 32-bit software, 4 GB VAS is the limit. The solution for my PC: using photo textures only when really necessary (most of the time I don't like them anyway because they do not fit into the surrounding environment [GEX or FTX]), using low resolution textures if available, reducing AI Traffic, some tweaks in fsx.cfg and only activating the departure and destination airport in FSX library. I am not fully free of OOMs but I was able to reduce them to a minimum.

 

Regards,

Daniel

 

[Terblanche 118]

People can ague until they are blue for P3D but for me the 'effect' does not justify the 'cause' ... the basic fact that only 22 of my 164 payware airports on FSX are P3Dv3 compatible and because of the lighting in P3D the rest are pretty useless (read: huge-mess) during night flying, a permanent switch to P3D is a long way off my goal. My very expensive P3D only serves as a VFR platform for flying Carendo/Alebeo/A2A aircraft in and around ORBX's scenery for P3Dv3. There is no point in going back to default scenery just in order to have shadows in the cockpit.

Yes, P3D handles VAS better but honestly the way my fsx.cfg is setup and the fact that all external programs (ASN, EFB, Pro/ATC) run from a second computer, gives me a pretty smooth ride in FSX. Out of 164 addon sceneries only 3 have given me OOMs - EGLL, EDDT, EDDF ... all three by Aerosoft of which EGLL still has no P3Dv3 installer.

Hence my sentiment lies with FSX users because we, by far, outnumber the P3D users ... and scenery developers should therefore maintain a focus on FSX and then P3D and not the other way around. Thousands of dollars have been spend on FSX scenery, aircraft, and addons. FSX and P3D (revised FSX) are all we've got and within its limitations we cannot design and demand more then it can handle.

PS: Note I haven't said anything about the whole Airport Controller route that "stops working" 7/10 times when I start FSX ... that is a whole different topic of something new that has been introduced with more pressure than pleasure.

[Terblanche 118]

9 hours ago, flusi748 said:

Aerosoft Mega Airport Heathrow Xtended have a P3Dv3 Installer.

 

Oh my - will immediately download it again from the vendor that I've purchased it from. If I remember correctly it only had a P3D.v2 installer and I haven't had any notification of an update.

Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Cargostorm 98]

It is my impression that very often the same people that demand modelling of the interior in airport buildings, 4K HD textures, and 3D grass are complaining because they are getting OOM errors. As said many times before, it is always a compromise and balance between the eye-candy, the settings and the hardware involved. As to EDDF and other demanding airports, it would maybe help to bring out certain performance options (like in UK2000 or FlyTampa airports) or a light version for FSX users.

 

If one does not accept that FSX is outranged in regard of VAS usage, he must either switch to an other platform (P3D or X-Plane) or be careful with his settings and active sceneries. That's how it is and what Tom was trying to explain. When I was still on FSX, I only activated the airports / sceneries from where / to which I fly for a particular flight. The use of Simstarter made this switch very easy. I was also careful with the graphics settings and as a result I never experienced a OOM. The main reason to switch to P3D at the end were the cockpit and cloud shadows (I did not want to use DX10, Steve's fixes).

 

I must admit however that I can provoke an OOM error in EDDF - even in P3D - by increasing the LOD radius and autogen density to the upper limit and flying from EGLL in a VAS-demanding aircraft. Being careful with the sliders makes the difference.

 

@ Terblanche: If you have problems with lighting in P3D using incompatible FSX sceneries, you may have a look at "simmershome". The author provides patches for a lot of sceneries in agreement with Aerosoft (no EULA violation): http://simmershome.de/native-p3dv2-light-patches/

You can use Google Translator to translate. The V2 patches work in V3.

Regards,

Chris

 

[Terblanche 118]

On 6/28/2016 at 10:11 AM, Cargostorm said:

If you have problems with lighting in P3D using incompatible FSX sceneries, you may have a look at "simmershome". The author provides patches for a lot of sceneries in agreement with Aerosoft (no EULA violation): http://simmershome.de/native-p3dv2-light-patches/

 

@Cargostorm - Thank you. My problem is that I don't want to use a Migration-Tool because it completely messed up my FSX regardless what it says. Some scenery fist want to uninstall itself from FSX before it continues with a new installation to P3D and with some sceneries it somehow does not install correctly. I've tried so many times and got so tired of install, uninstall, reinstall, try to figure it out. BUT - I will give Simmershome a try and see what the result is.

[Cargostorm 98]

Vor 1 Stunde, Terblanche sagte:

 

@Cargostorm - Thank you. My problem is that I don't want to use a Migration-Tool because it completely messed up my FSX regardless what it says. Some scenery fist want to uninstall itself from FSX before it continues with a new installation to P3D and with some sceneries it somehow does not install correctly. I've tried so many times and got so tired of install, uninstall, reinstall, try to figure it out. BUT - I will give Simmershome a try and see what the result is.

 

Actually, you do not need the migration tool if using FSX sceneries in P3D. Just make a copy of the FSX airport scenery folders that you already have to a new place, which then serves for P3D. Then you can make the respective path entry in the P3D scenery.cfg (in ProgramData folder) hinting to the new scenery location. Doing so, any modification of a P3D scenery file will have no effect to your FSX installation. As to effects files (that come with some sceneries), you could just adapt the effects.cfg of P3D ProgramData hinting to the FSX effects folder (or just copy them into the P3D effects folder if you know the files). The same must be done with sound or simobjects files etc if the scenery comes with those. You can leave FSX untouched in this case, no need to uninstall, and run P3D in parallel.

 

Personally, I install everything (be it P3D or FSX) in a "FAKE installation", but you need to adapt the registry paths in doing so as the scenery or aircraft installer will look up the required paths in the registry. Everything from the installer is then installed into the Fake sim folders and I do see exactly see what files are actually installed or amended. I then copy the secenery in a location that is OUTSIDE of the P3D root folder, where I have all the sceneries and 3rd party folders, i.e. effects, simobjects, sound etc. P3D makes it very ease to link these locations if you know what you are doing. I would only recommend this however if one is experienced enough as it can fully destroy the sim or something else.

[Terblanche 118]

@Cargostorm - and what do you do with so many sceneries that install files to the EFFECTS and MAIN SCENERY folders??

[Cargostorm 98]

I just copy the effects files into the effects folder of the P3D root folder. Alternatively you could just copy all effects in an folder outside the root folder and adapt the path in the effects.cfg in the P3D ProgramData folder. The same you can do with sounds and simobjects, as P3D has a owns *cfg for each in the ProgramData folder. Basically it does not matter where you place the files, as long as the correct path is present in the *cfg files.

[Terblanche 118]

1 minute ago, Cargostorm said:

Basically it does not matter where you place the files, as long as the correct path is present in the *cfg files.

 

Cool ... I didn't know that. Will give it a try. Thank you so much.

[Cargostorm 98]

You are very welcome Terblanche. Yes, that is the new file structure that was introduced in P3D V3 that basically allows to install everything outside the root folder. I do like fiddling around with files as it is part of my hobby and gives me a deep understanding of what the simulator is doing, or better why it is sometimes not doing what it is supposed to do. But it is not everybody's thing. If you want to get rid of FSX, you could just try again the EMT migration tool, which works for many people and you do not need to fiddle with all those files manually.

[sydney1962 35]

cargostorm,

 

maybe a small youtube movie should be useful , with one scenery, so we can watch it and make it step by step.

after all they work all the same if you know the trick.